Freegle Wiki - User contributions [en-gb]

Talk:What a New System Should Have

2010-09-03T22:24:09Z

NeilGood: Esther and Jean comments added

== Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) ==

#1756 From: Paul Thompson

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:31 am Subject: Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) paul_in_ascot

With the recent wobbly that Yahoo has thrown us (see Edward's message on Central), I think it would be prudent for us to do some serious evaluation of Big Tent and other possible pre-built solutions that we might be able to move to.

The techies that have commented here seem to agree that writing our own is likely too big of a project. However, piggy backing on another, more modern web platform, has a hope and a prayer at least.

How would such an evaluation best be done? Should we develop a list of evaluation criteria?

Thoughts?

Cheers, Paul Thompson

 

== 1757 From: sixmum ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:45 am

That's a good idea Paul. I'm up for trying anything out.

I like this idea, it would carry through whatever we were considering.

*Got to cope with large volumes of traffic
*Large membership lists

Carole

 

== 1758 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:41 am

I know nothing about Big Tent but I do think we should at least look at other options. Is Drupal worth looking at? Again I know nothing about it really apart from the fact the Transition Town forum has been talking about them as a possible for transition town groups to run their on-line presence on.

I'm a sort of sudo techie.. in that I have worked in computer support and so on but mostly I know enough about a wide variety of things to understand what techies say and translate or to test any new system as I'm good at finding the bits that don't work and systemically poking at all the corners :) so if those with more knowledge want to look at such things I'll happily poke any trial set up.

Esther

== 1760 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:25 am

I don't know how these things work, but someone on FC Next has got a world wide groups up and running for recycling, then Ecomodo seem to have a very good site but with a slow growth rate. Is there some way we could piggy back on this type of group? It makes sense to join one that is built with similar aims to me.

The downside is that I have joined a few groups and because they are non Yahoo I tend not to visit them. Will our members do the same? On Yahoo's new format I presume we will be listed on Yahoo and be able to spread the word easier, members will have quick links to their groups if they have an account, and more will probably have an account if it ends up catching on.

Jean Trafford

 

== 1764 From: Paul Thompson freeglepaul ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:18 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Esther Reeves wrote: > Is Drupal worth looking at?

Nope. Drupal is a content management system... Not at all what we need.

But a side point based on your suggestion, it is worth looking at Open Source Software available....

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== 1761 From: Chris Cant chriscant ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:24 am

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites. As an admin you can add and edit pages. It lets users register etc. There are oddles of (free) modules that do useful stuff, eg blog and forums come bundled with the basic installation. There are major extensions such as CiviCRM that is a Customer/Constituent Relationship Manager. I'm working on a couple of Drupal projects at the moment; the (paid-for) tool Artisteer is good at making themes, ie the appearance skin.

While Drupal is good, it may not have the modules or particular functionality that we would need to run a Freegle group.

I presume Big Tent and others are specifically set up to run a re-use group.

If we pitch our tent in someone else's field, then there's always the risk that they suddenly rearrange the furniture.

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.

Even moving to someone's else existing will require a lot of time/energy.

If we don't find something suitable and we wished to start from scratch, then that will require even more energy. That said, Drupal may be a suitable starting point.

Chris Penrith

 

== 1762 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:37 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Chris Cant wrote:

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites.

Thanks I now now much more than i did about it!

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system. That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we starting at the beginning?

Esther

 

== 1766 From: Paul Thompson freeglepaul ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:13 pm On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Esther Reeves esther.reeves wrote:

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.
That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we
starting at the beginning? We've randomly chatted about the prospect of replacement systems
(either pre-built or building from scratch).
But we've not properly talked about real criteria for such a system.

To do this properly, we need to be quite thorough. I would suggest first defining some high level categories, then breaking into those and adding some detailed criteria. For instance....

High level categories:

#'''Implementation''' - how does setting up groups and migrating groups work?
#'''Capabilities''' - what do we need the system to do?
#'''Dependability''' - could the system disappear one day? what sort of uptime can we expect?
#'''Flexibility''' - is there any chance for adding on features we need, sort of like you can enhance Facebook by adding Facebook apps?

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly.

I wonder if facebook would even remotely be a usable platform... Hmmnn.........;)

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== 1767 From: David Freegle Mod davidfreegle ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:28 pm On 01/09/2010 14:13,

Paul Thompson wrote:

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly. As a non techie: I think one of
the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we
don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle

Open source is also important although I do like the Ecomodo site which I believe was done with MS products and took them a couple of years. Just out of interest I could ask them how long that took and what resources they used as I seem to remember a couple of them took a few years

I would also say that allowing photos of items would help a lot

And consider some form of member rating system even if it was just a I had a successful transaction with this member and /or some way of identifying how reliable a member is

I can see that in plugin in that the no of offers /wanteds a member posts so I suppose a recent posts of member may help Very much random thoughts as I assume we are talking years ahead here and first priority will be to work with new yahoo system but would be handy to collate thoughts on this and maybe we could do a google survey when we have more time

Regards David

*David*
**Reading Freegle*

== 1768 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:44 pm

As a non techie: I think one of the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle
Regards David
Yes I agree with most of this. There is no harm going down this route as it may be possible to ask Yahoo to implement some of what we want anyway, if it turns out to be viable on their new platform.

I was wondering if we could somehow run a simple separate system to run alongside Yahoo groups with maybe just a list of emails going to and from members for those who want to opt out of Yahoo?

Jean

Trafford

 

== 1777 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Thu Sep 2, 2010 2:59 pm

Sorry if my contributions are not relevant.

This website I have seen recommended and it does seem adaptable. It is open source.

[[http://news.livejournal.com/ livejournal.com]]

Jean

Trafford

== 1781 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Thu Sep 2, 2010 11:39 pm

So are we meant to be discussing it here still or on the wiki I'm confused now and aware there are similar discussions in multiple places.

The main thing I would want in any platform I'd seriously consider moving to is that it was easy to use both by email and on line.

Ideally I'd like a hybrid of a mailing list and a forum but I've never seen one that worked well. The reply to sender thing is critical.

In other words I'd like to be able to set up the website side of things so it looked and worked like a forum and had different sections for different things ie offers, wanteds and the ability to have a chat group directly there but separate. Ideally I'd like to be able to divide the offers and wanteds into sections ie household, kids etc but I can't get my head round how that could work with also being able to use it as a mailing system.

Many of my members just want to be able to email the group when they have something to offer or request and to get everything someone else posts come into their inbox and to be able to decide if they get individual emails, digests or nothing. I've seen forums where you can chose to get replies to specific threads but not ones where you can email things in.

As I say I've never personally come across something I thought would work well like that but I am much more experienced in running mailing lists than forums so I am willing to admit i may just have missed it.

Esther

Promoting my new group

2010-09-03T19:42:42Z

NeilGood: Formatting

#Contact any freegle group who may have members from your area on it and ask them to put an  [[Admin new local group opened|Admin ]] out to say you have opened a new group.
#Email any local papers and inform them. There is a press release on Central files which you can adapt.[[Press Releases]]
#[[Contacting Councils]] is a good idea. Email your council (Recycling Officer if you have one) and ask if they would be willing to help too. Some councils now publish booklets of recycling agencies and will include us.
#Inform any Community groups. Sometimes on their websites there is a link you can contact.
#Print some A4 posters [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreegleUK-Central/files/Posters%20and%20Fliers/ groups.yahoo.com/group/FreegleUK-Central/files/Posters%20and%20Fliers/] and ask local libraries, schools and community centres if they would put them up.
#Print some bookmarks (get thicker paper 160gsm or card) if your library will allow you to leave them for people to collect.
#Vistaprint can be cheap if you are canny and get the free offers. 250 business cards etc. You have to pay postage and maybe a fee about £2 to upload the logo.
#It has been found that if you do have hand outs it is better to have them in doctors surgeries, take aways etc, where people will only pick them up if interested, or just some in your pocket to hand out to any interested parties. Mail drops are costly and not very effective.
#Some schools may allow you to go in and talk about Freegle/recycling.
#If you know any teachers they may put up posters on the school notice board.
#If you live on a busy road consider having a banner of some sort

Back to [[Publicity]] [[Image:Megaphone-man.png|20px]]

[[Category:Publicity]]

Promoting my new group

2010-09-03T19:41:13Z

NeilGood: Formatting

# Contact any freegle group who may have members from your area on it and ask them to put an  [[Admin new local group opened|Admin ]] out to say you have opened a new group.

# Email any local papers and inform them. There is a press release on Central files which you can adapt.[[Press Releases]]

# [[Contacting Councils]] is a good idea. Email your council (Recycling Officer if you have one) and ask if they would be willing to help too. Some councils now publish booklets of recycling agencies and will include us.

# Inform any Community groups. Sometimes on their websites there is a link you can contact.

# Print some A4 posters [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreegleUK-Central/files/Posters%20and%20Fliers/ groups.yahoo.com/group/FreegleUK-Central/files/Posters%20and%20Fliers/] and ask local libraries, schools and community centres if they would put them up.

# Print some bookmarks (get thicker paper 160gsm or card) if your library will allow you to leave them for people to collect.

# Vistaprint can be cheap if you are canny and get the free offers. 250 business cards etc. You have to pay postage and maybe a fee about £2 to upload the logo.

# It has been found that if you do have hand outs it is better to have them in doctors surgeries, take aways etc, where people will only pick them up if interested, or just some in your pocket to hand out to any interested parties. Mail drops are costly and not very effective.

# Some schools may allow you to go in and talk about Freegle/recycling. 

# If you know any teachers they may put up posters on the school notice board.

# If you live on a busy road consider having a banner of some sort.

Back to [[Publicity]] [[Image:Megaphone-man.png|20px]]

[[Category:Publicity]]

Talk:Wiki Etiquette

2010-09-02T23:53:46Z

NeilGood: Response

From the eMail discussion, we seem to disagree on a good few of the points below:
<pre>Don't leave blank pages without a declaration that you are intending to come back at some point to do it - and do so!
(Each page has a discussion page which is intended for discussion about the content of that page:
changes suggested, work in progress, etc)
</pre>
Conventional wiki wisdom positively encourages leaving stubs to non-existent pages that need to be created.
<pre>Check the history of a page before making any changes</pre>
This is a good point - it should avoid repeated misconceptions
<pre>and be sensitive about editing other people's work</pre>
nothing is lost and operating on the basis that most people will be making changes in good faith, let them carry on!
<pre>If you are about to make some more significant changes (e.g. entirely rewrite an important page,
or change the category structure), send a mail (to Central) saying so. That way you can flush out
people who might also be intending to do that, also find people who might want to review the changes</pre> <pre>Mail folk in the 'history' to ask if they want to review your changes</pre>
For both of these points, perhaps a better thing would to encourage people to watch the pages they are interested in so the wiki will tell them when there are changes and they can view/disagree/amend

People watching the more important pages can enquire why the changes were made and revert to the previous version if need be but we should operate on the basis most people try to make changes in good faith and should not be too afraid to make changes.

--[[User:NeilGood|NeilGood]] 20:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Quoting convential wisdom is fine, but most wikis (I think) have at least one moderator.  This one doesn't other than a monthly check for spammers, so this isn't a standard wiki facility.  Freegle is also feeling it's way forward and consideration along the way really helps when we are probably dealing with a majoriy who haven'tever written anything on a wiki.

The issue about creating blank pages is that they have sometimes been created but the content already exists under another page title.  If new pages were genuinely needed and that is flagged up in the 'to do' list that would be fine.  But that isn't what has happened so far.  They are just left as a link with nothing on the the other end.  Which is one of the reasons people have given for not using this wiki - there are too many blank pages.

The sensitivity issue is real.  People do get upset. So why not just be careful?

JackyBarrett 2 September 2010

Thanks Jacky.

'''Re Blank Pages''' - maybe the answer is if you find it blank and have something to say, add it.....I have changed the remark above to be better in line with the sentiment on the Yahoo group thread.  Maybe the page should be tagged somehow - found blank and the date then if a month or so passes and nothing has happened, remove the page.  Generally, I think we are saying blank pages should be discouraged so either leave it as a link to a blank page or put at least a couple of sentences in there so others can add to it.

Just had a look through Categories - is there something we do there to tag the blank pages? Category:Housekeeping I thought but that is Housekeeping associated with running a Group rather than the Wiki itself - WikiHousekeeping maybe?

The real issue is '''deletion/removal of content'''.  I think we must encourage people to add their comments/thoughts/ideas either in the page or in the associated Talk page.  What you are saying is the a large scale removal of content causes upset....agreed....I would not like it!

'''Overall sentiment''' -I am a huge supporter of this way of working so would prefer to deal with people contributing but getting it a bit wrong rather than holding back.  This wiki with its front page and backing discussion page would seem perfect for now.  

It is very nice to have a decent discussion like this.....

--[[User:NeilGood|NeilGood]] 23:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Wiki Etiquette

2010-09-02T23:52:10Z

NeilGood: Response

From the eMail discussion, we seem to disagree on a good few of the points below:
<pre>Don't leave blank pages without a declaration that you are intending to come back at some point to do it - and do so!
(Each page has a discussion page which is intended for discussion about the content of that page:
changes suggested, work in progress, etc)
</pre>
Conventional wiki wisdom positively encourages leaving stubs to non-existent pages that need to be created.
<pre>Check the history of a page before making any changes</pre>
This is a good point - it should avoid repeated misconceptions
<pre>and be sensitive about editing other people's work</pre>
nothing is lost and operating on the basis that most people will be making changes in good faith, let them carry on!
<pre>If you are about to make some more significant changes (e.g. entirely rewrite an important page,
or change the category structure), send a mail (to Central) saying so. That way you can flush out
people who might also be intending to do that, also find people who might want to review the changes</pre> <pre>Mail folk in the 'history' to ask if they want to review your changes</pre>
For both of these points, perhaps a better thing would to encourage people to watch the pages they are interested in so the wiki will tell them when there are changes and they can view/disagree/amend

People watching the more important pages can enquire why the changes were made and revert to the previous version if need be but we should operate on the basis most people try to make changes in good faith and should not be too afraid to make changes.

--[[User:NeilGood|NeilGood]] 20:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Quoting convential wisdom is fine, but most wikis (I think) have at least one moderator.  This one doesn't other than a monthly check for spammers, so this isn't a standard wiki facility.  Freegle is also feeling it's way forward and consideration along the way really helps when we are probably dealing with a majoriy who haven'tever written anything on a wiki.

The issue about creating blank pages is that they have sometimes been created but the content already exists under another page title.  If new pages were genuinely needed and that is flagged up in the 'to do' list that would be fine.  But that isn't what has happened so far.  They are just left as a link with nothing on the the other end.  Which is one of the reasons people have given for not using this wiki - there are too many blank pages.

The sensitivity issue is real.  People do get upset. So why not just be careful?

JackyBarrett 2 September 2010

Thanks Jacky.

'''Re Blank Pages''' - maybe the answer is if you find it blank and have something to say, add it.....I have changed the remark above to be better in line with the sentiment on the Yahoo group thread.  Maybe the page should be tagged somehow - found blank and the date then if a month or so passes and nothing has happened, remove the page.  Generally, I think we are saying blank pages should be discouraged so either leave it as a link to a blank page or put at least a couple of sentences in there so others can add to it.

Just had a look through Categories - is there something we do there to tag the blank pages?  I thought [[Category:Housekeeping]] but that is Housekeeping associated with running a Group rather than the Wiki itself - WikiHousekeeping maybe?

The real issue is '''deletion/removal of content'''.  I think we must encourage people to add their comments/thoughts/ideas either in the page or in the associated Talk page.  What you are saying is the a large scale removal of content causes upset....agreed....I would not like it!

'''Overall sentiment''' -I am a huge supporter of this way of working so would prefer to deal with people contributing but getting it a bit wrong rather than holding back.  This wiki with its front page and backing discussion page would seem perfect for now.  

It is very nice to have a decent discussion like this.....

--[[User:NeilGood|NeilGood]] 23:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Wiki Etiquette

2010-09-02T20:56:01Z

NeilGood: Formatting

Talk:Wiki Etiquette

2010-09-02T20:54:34Z

NeilGood: Formatting

Talk:Wiki Etiquette

2010-09-02T20:53:15Z

NeilGood: Formatting

From the eMail discussion, we seem to disagree on a good few of the points below:

*<pre>Don't leave blank pages without a declaration that you are intending to come back at some point to do it - and do so!
</pre>

(Each page has a discussion page which is intended for discussion about the content of that page: changes suggested, work in progress, etc)

**Conventional wiki wisdom positively encourages leaving blank stubs to pages that need to be created.
*<pre>Check the history of a page before making any changes</pre>
*This is a good point - it should avoid repeated misconceptions
*<pre>and be sensitive about editing other people's work</pre>
**nothing is lost and operating on the basis that most people will be making changes in good faith, let them carry on!
*<pre>If you are about to make some more significant changes (e.g. entirely rewrite an important page, or change the category structure), send a mail (to Central) saying so. That way you can flush out people who might also be intending to do that, also find people who might want to review the changes</pre>
*<pre>Mail folk in the 'history' to ask if they want to review your changes</pre>
*For both of these points, perhaps a better thing would to encourage people to watch the pages they are interested in so the wiki will tell them when there are changes and they can view/disagree/amend

People watching the more important pages can enquire why the changes were made and revert to the previous version if need be but we should operate on the basis most people try to make changes in good faith and should not be too afraid to make changes.

 

--[[User:NeilGood|NeilGood]] 20:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Wiki Etiquette

2010-09-02T20:52:02Z

NeilGood: Challenging a few points

From the eMail discussion, we seem to disagree on a good few of the points below:

*<pre>''Don't leave blank pages without a declaration that you are intending to come back at some point to do it - and do so! (Each page has a discussion page which is intended for discussion about the content of that page: changes suggested, work in progress, etc)''</pre>
**Conventional wiki wisdom positively encourages leaving blank stubs to pages that need to be created.
*<pre>''Check the history of a page before making any changes''</pre>
*This is a good point - it should avoid repeated misconceptions
*<pre>''and be sensitive about editing other people's work''</pre>
**nothing is lost and operating on the basis that most people will be making changes in good faith, let them carry on!
*<pre>If you are about to make some more significant changes (e.g. entirely rewrite an important page, or change the category structure), send a mail (to Central) saying so. That way you can flush out people who might also be intending to do that, also find people who might want to review the changes</pre>
*<pre>Mail folk in the 'history' to ask if they want to review your changes</pre>
*For both of these points, perhaps a better thing would to encourage people to watch the pages they are interested in so the wiki will tell them when there are changes and they can view/disagree/amend

People watching the more important pages can enquire why the changes were made and revert to the previous version if need be but we should operate on the basis most people try to make changes in good faith and should not be too afraid to make changes.

 

--[[User:NeilGood|NeilGood]] 20:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talk:What a New System Should Have

2010-09-01T23:38:06Z

NeilGood: Headings

Talk:What a New System Should Have

2010-09-01T23:35:22Z

NeilGood: Headings

== Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) ==

#1756 From: Paul Thompson

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:31 am Subject: Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) paul_in_ascot

With the recent wobbly that Yahoo has thrown us (see Edward's message on Central), I think it would be prudent for us to do some serious evaluation of Big Tent and other possible pre-built solutions that we might be able to move to.

The techies that have commented here seem to agree that writing our own is likely too big of a project. However, piggy backing on another, more modern web platform, has a hope and a prayer at least.

How would such an evaluation best be done? Should we develop a list of evaluation criteria?

Thoughts?

Cheers, Paul Thompson

 

== 1757 From: sixmum ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:45 am

That's a good idea Paul. I'm up for trying anything out.

I like this idea, it would carry through whatever we were considering.

*Got to cope with large volumes of traffic
*Large membership lists

Carole

 

== 1758 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:41 am

I know nothing about Big Tent but I do think we should at least look at other options. Is Drupal worth looking at? Again I know nothing about it really apart from the fact the Transition Town forum has been talking about them as a possible for transition town groups to run their on-line presence on.

I'm a sort of sudo techie.. in that I have worked in computer support and so on but mostly I know enough about a wide variety of things to understand what techies say and translate or to test any new system as I'm good at finding the bits that don't work and systemically poking at all the corners :) so if those with more knowledge want to look at such things I'll happily poke any trial set up.

Esther

== 1760 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:25 am

I don't know how these things work, but someone on FC Next has got a world wide groups up and running for recycling, then Ecomodo seem to have a very good site but with a slow growth rate. Is there some way we could piggy back on this type of group? It makes sense to join one that is built with similar aims to me.

The downside is that I have joined a few groups and because they are non Yahoo I tend not to visit them. Will our members do the same? On Yahoo's new format I presume we will be listed on Yahoo and be able to spread the word easier, members will have quick links to their groups if they have an account, and more will probably have an account if it ends up catching on.

Jean Trafford

 

== 1764 From: Paul Thompson freeglepaul ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:18 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeveswrote: > Is Drupal worth looking at?

Nope. Drupal is a content management system... Not at all what we need.

But a side point based on your suggestion, it is worth looking at Open Source Software available....

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== 1761 From: Chris Cant chriscant ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:24 am

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites. As an admin you can add and edit pages. It lets users register etc. There are oddles of (free) modules that do useful stuff, eg blog and forums come bundled with the basic installation. There are major extensions such as CiviCRM that is a Customer/Constituent Relationship Manager. I'm working on a couple of Drupal projects at the moment; the (paid-for) tool Artisteer is good at making themes, ie the appearance skin.

While Drupal is good, it may not have the modules or particular functionality that we would need to run a Freegle group.

I presume Big Tent and others are specifically set up to run a re-use group.

If we pitch our tent in someone else's field, then there's always the risk that they suddenly rearrange the furniture.

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.

Even moving to someone's else existing will require a lot of time/energy.

If we don't find something suitable and we wished to start from scratch, then that will require even more energy. That said, Drupal may be a suitable starting point.

Chris Penrith

 

== 1762 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:37 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Chris Cant <chriscant wrote:

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites.

Thanks I now now much more than i did about it!

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system. That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we starting at the beginning?

Esther

 

== 1766 From: Paul Thompson freeglepaul ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:13 pm On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeveswrote:

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.
That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we
starting at the beginning? We've randomly chatted about the prospect of replacement systems
(either pre-built or building from scratch).
But we've not properly talked about real criteria for such a system.

To do this properly, we need to be quite thorough. I would suggest first defining some high level categories, then breaking into those and adding some detailed criteria. For instance....

High level categories:

#'''Implementation''' - how does setting up groups and migrating groups work?
#'''Capabilities''' - what do we need the system to do?
#'''Dependability''' - could the system disappear one day? what sort of uptime can we expect?
#'''Flexibility''' - is there any chance for adding on features we need, sort of like you can enhance Facebook by adding Facebook apps?

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly.

I wonder if facebook would even remotely be a usable platform... Hmmnn.........;)

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== 1767 From: David Freegle Mod davidfreegle ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:28 pm On 01/09/2010 14:13,

Paul Thompson wrote:

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly. As a non techie: I think one of
the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we
don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle

Open source is also important although I do like the Ecomodo site which I believe was done with MS products and took them a couple of years. Just out of interest I could ask them how long that took and what resources they used as I seem to remember a couple of them took a few years

I would also say that allowing photos of items would help a lot

And consider some form of member rating system even if it was just a I had a successful transaction with this member and /or some way of identifying how reliable a member is

I can see that in plugin in that the no of offers /wanteds a member posts so I suppose a recent posts of member may help Very much random thoughts as I assume we are talking years ahead here and first priority will be to work with new yahoo system but would be handy to collate thoughts on this and maybe we could do a google survey when we have more time

Regards David

*David*
**Reading Freegle*

== 1768 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:44 pm

As a non techie: I think one of the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle
Regards David
Yes I agree with most of this. There is no harm going down this route as it may be possible to ask Yahoo to implement some of what we want anyway, if it turns out to be viable on their new platform.

I was wondering if we could somehow run a simple separate system to run alongside Yahoo groups with maybe just a list of emails going to and from members for those who want to opt out of Yahoo?

Jean Trafford

Talk:What a New System Should Have

2010-09-01T23:32:53Z

NeilGood: Remove eMail autolinking

== Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) ==

#1756 From: Paul Thompson

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:31 am Subject: Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) paul_in_ascot

With the recent wobbly that Yahoo has thrown us (see Edward's message on Central), I think it would be prudent for us to do some serious evaluation of Big Tent and other possible pre-built solutions that we might be able to move to.

The techies that have commented here seem to agree that writing our own is likely too big of a project. However, piggy backing on another, more modern web platform, has a hope and a prayer at least.

How would such an evaluation best be done? Should we develop a list of evaluation criteria?

Thoughts?

Cheers, Paul Thompson

 

== 1757 From: sixmum ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:45 am

That's a good idea Paul. I'm up for trying anything out.

I like this idea, it would carry through whatever we were considering.

*Got to cope with large volumes of traffic
*Large membership lists

Carole

 

== 1758 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:41 am

I know nothing about Big Tent but I do think we should at least look at other options. Is Drupal worth looking at? Again I know nothing about it really apart from the fact the Transition Town forum has been talking about them as a possible for transition town groups to run their on-line presence on.

I'm a sort of sudo techie.. in that I have worked in computer support and so on but mostly I know enough about a wide variety of things to understand what techies say and translate or to test any new system as I'm good at finding the bits that don't work and systemically poking at all the corners :) so if those with more knowledge want to look at such things I'll happily poke any trial set up.

Esther

== 1760 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:25 am

I don't know how these things work, but someone on FC Next has got a world wide groups up and running for recycling, then Ecomodo seem to have a very good site but with a slow growth rate. Is there some way we could piggy back on this type of group? It makes sense to join one that is built with similar aims to me.

The downside is that I have joined a few groups and because they are non Yahoo I tend not to visit them. Will our members do the same? On Yahoo's new format I presume we will be listed on Yahoo and be able to spread the word easier, members will have quick links to their groups if they have an account, and more will probably have an account if it ends up catching on.

Jean Trafford

 

== 1764 From: Paul Thompson freeglepaul ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:18 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeveswrote: > Is Drupal worth looking at?

Nope. Drupal is a content management system... Not at all what we need.

But a side point based on your suggestion, it is worth looking at Open Source Software available....

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== 1761 From: Chris Cant chriscant ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:24 am

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites. As an admin you can add and edit pages. It lets users register etc. There are oddles of (free) modules that do useful stuff, eg blog and forums come bundled with the basic installation. There are major extensions such as CiviCRM that is a Customer/Constituent Relationship Manager. I'm working on a couple of Drupal projects at the moment; the (paid-for) tool Artisteer is good at making themes, ie the appearance skin.

While Drupal is good, it may not have the modules or particular functionality that we would need to run a Freegle group.

I presume Big Tent and others are specifically set up to run a re-use group.

If we pitch our tent in someone else's field, then there's always the risk that they suddenly rearrange the furniture.

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.

Even moving to someone's else existing will require a lot of time/energy.

If we don't find something suitable and we wished to start from scratch, then that will require even more energy. That said, Drupal may be a suitable starting point.

Chris Penrith

 

== 1762 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:37 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Chris Cant <chriscant wrote:

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites.

Thanks I now now much more than i did about it!

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system. That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we starting at the beginning?

Esther

 

== 1766 From: Paul Thompson freeglepaul ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:13 pm On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeveswrote:

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.
That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we
starting at the beginning? We've randomly chatted about the prospect of replacement systems
(either pre-built or building from scratch).
But we've not properly talked about real criteria for such a system.

To do this properly, we need to be quite thorough. I would suggest first defining some high level categories, then breaking into those and adding some detailed criteria. For instance....

High level categories:

#'''Implementation''' - how does setting up groups and migrating groups work?
#'''Capabilities''' - what do we need the system to do?
#'''Dependability''' - could the system disappear one day? what sort of uptime can we expect?
#'''Flexibility''' - is there any chance for adding on features we need, sort of like you can enhance Facebook by adding Facebook apps?

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly.

I wonder if facebook would even remotely be a usable platform... Hmmnn.........;)

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== 1767 From: David Freegle Mod davidfreegle ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:28 pm On 01/09/2010 14:13,

Paul Thompson wrote:

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly. As a non techie: I think one of
the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we
don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle

Open source is also important although I do like the Ecomodo site which I believe was done with MS products and took them a couple of years. Just out of interest I could ask them how long that took and what resources they used as I seem to remember a couple of them took a few years

I would also say that allowing photos of items would help a lot

And consider some form of member rating system even if it was just a I had a successful transaction with this member and /or some way of identifying how reliable a member is

I can see that in plugin in that the no of offers /wanteds a member posts so I suppose a recent posts of member may help Very much random thoughts as I assume we are talking years ahead here and first priority will be to work with new yahoo system but would be handy to collate thoughts on this and maybe we could do a google survey when we have more time

Regards David

*David*
**Reading Freegle*

== 1768 From: Trafford Freegle sueandjean ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:44 pm

As a non techie: I think one of the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle
Regards David
Yes I agree with most of this. There is no harm going down this route as it may be possible to ask Yahoo to implement some of what we want anyway, if it turns out to be viable on their new platform.

I was wondering if we could somehow run a simple separate system to run alongside Yahoo groups with maybe just a list of emails going to and from members for those who want to opt out of Yahoo?

Jean Trafford

Talk:What a New System Should Have

2010-09-01T23:03:33Z

NeilGood: Tidy Up formatting

== Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) ==

#1756 From: Paul Thompson

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:31 am Subject: Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) paul_in_ascot

With the recent wobbly that Yahoo has thrown us (see Edward's message on Central), I think it would be prudent for us to do some serious evaluation of Big Tent and other possible pre-built solutions that we might be able to move to.

The techies that have commented here seem to agree that writing our own is likely too big of a project. However, piggy backing on another, more modern web platform, has a hope and a prayer at least.

How would such an evaluation best be done? Should we develop a list of evaluation criteria?

Thoughts?

Cheers, Paul Thompson

 

== #1757 From: sixmum ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:45 am

That's a good idea Paul. I'm up for trying anything out.

I like this idea, it would carry through whatever we were considering.

*Got to cope with large volumes of traffic
*Large membership lists

Carole

 

== #1758 From: Esther Reeves esther.reeves ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:41 am

I know nothing about Big Tent but I do think we should at least look at other options. Is Drupal worth looking at? Again I know nothing about it really apart from the fact the Transition Town forum has been talking about them as a possible for transition town groups to run their on-line presence on.

I'm a sort of sudo techie.. in that I have worked in computer support and so on but mostly I know enough about a wide variety of things to understand what techies say and translate or to test any new system as I'm good at finding the bits that don't work and systemically poking at all the corners :) so if those with more knowledge want to look at such things I'll happily poke any trial set up.

Esther

== #1760 From: Trafford Freegle <sueandjean@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:25 am

I don't know how these things work, but someone on FC Next has got a world wide groups up and running for recycling, then Ecomodo seem to have a very good site but with a slow growth rate. Is there some way we could piggy back on this type of group? It makes sense to join one that is built with similar aims to me.

The downside is that I have joined a few groups and because they are non Yahoo I tend not to visit them. Will our members do the same? On Yahoo's new format I presume we will be listed on Yahoo and be able to spread the word easier, members will have quick links to their groups if they have an account, and more will probably have an account if it ends up catching on.

Jean Trafford

 

== #1764 From: Paul Thompson <freeglepaul@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:18 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...>wrote: > Is Drupal worth looking at?

Nope. Drupal is a content management system... Not at all what we need.

But a side point based on your suggestion, it is worth looking at Open Source Software available....

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== #1761 From: Chris Cant <chriscant@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:24 am

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites. As an admin you can add and edit pages. It lets users register etc. There are oddles of (free) modules that do useful stuff, eg blog and forums come bundled with the basic installation. There are major extensions such as CiviCRM that is a Customer/Constituent Relationship Manager. I'm working on a couple of Drupal projects at the moment; the (paid-for) tool Artisteer is good at making themes, ie the appearance skin.

While Drupal is good, it may not have the modules or particular functionality that we would need to run a Freegle group.

I presume Big Tent and others are specifically set up to run a re-use group.

If we pitch our tent in someone else's field, then there's always the risk that they suddenly rearrange the furniture.

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.

Even moving to someone's else existing will require a lot of time/energy.

If we don't find something suitable and we wished to start from scratch, then that will require even more energy. That said, Drupal may be a suitable starting point.

Chris Penrith

 

== #1762 From: Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:37 am On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Chris Cant <chriscant@...> wrote:

Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites.

Thanks I now now much more than i did about it!

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system. That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we starting at the beginning?

Esther

 

== #1766 From: Paul Thompson <freeglepaul@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:13 pm On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...>wrote:

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.
That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we
starting at the beginning? We've randomly chatted about the prospect of replacement systems
(either pre-built or building from scratch).
But we've not properly talked about real criteria for such a system.

To do this properly, we need to be quite thorough. I would suggest first defining some high level categories, then breaking into those and adding some detailed criteria. For instance....

High level categories:

#'''Implementation''' - how does setting up groups and migrating groups work?
#'''Capabilities''' - what do we need the system to do?
#'''Dependability''' - could the system disappear one day? what sort of uptime can we expect?
#'''Flexibility''' - is there any chance for adding on features we need, sort of like you can enhance Facebook by adding Facebook apps?

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly.

I wonder if facebook would even remotely be a usable platform... Hmmnn.........;)

Cheers, Paul Thompson Ascot Freegle

 

== #1767 From: David Freegle Mod <davidfreegle@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:28 pm On 01/09/2010 14:13,

Paul Thompson wrote:

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly. As a non techie: I think one of
the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we
don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle

Open source is also important although I do like the Ecomodo site which I believe was done with MS products and took them a couple of years. Just out of interest I could ask them how long that took and what resources they used as I seem to remember a couple of them took a few years

I would also say that allowing photos of items would help a lot

And consider some form of member rating system even if it was just a I had a successful transaction with this member and /or some way of identifying how reliable a member is

I can see that in plugin in that the no of offers /wanteds a member posts so I suppose a recent posts of member may help Very much random thoughts as I assume we are talking years ahead here and first priority will be to work with new yahoo system but would be handy to collate thoughts on this and maybe we could do a google survey when we have more time

Regards David

*David*
**Reading Freegle*

== #1768 From: Trafford Freegle <sueandjean@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:44 pm

As a non techie: I think one of the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle
Regards David
Yes I agree with most of this. There is no harm going down this route as it may be possible to ask Yahoo to implement some of what we want anyway, if it turns out to be viable on their new platform.

I was wondering if we could somehow run a simple separate system to run alongside Yahoo groups with maybe just a list of emails going to and from members for those who want to opt out of Yahoo?

Jean Trafford

Talk:What a New System Should Have

2010-09-01T22:47:19Z

NeilGood: Initial Page

== Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) ==

#1756 From: Paul Thompson <freeglepaul@...>
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:31 am
Subject: Serious Evaluation of Big Tent (etc) paul_in_ascot

With the recent wobbly that Yahoo has thrown us (see Edward's message on Central), I think it would be prudent for us to do some serious evaluation of Big Tent and other possible pre-built solutions that we might be able to move to.

The techies that have commented here seem to agree that writing our own is likely too big of a project. However, piggy backing on another, more modern web platform, has a hope and a prayer at least.

How would such an evaluation best be done? Should we develop a list of evaluation criteria?

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Paul Thompson

== #1757 From: sixmum@... ==
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 4:45 am

That's a good idea Paul. I'm up for trying anything out.

I like this idea, it would carry through whatever we were considering.
* Got to cope with large volumes of traffic
* Large membership lists

Carole

== #1758 From: Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...> ==
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 10:41 am

I know nothing about Big Tent but I do think we should at least look at other options. Is Drupal worth looking at? Again I know nothing about it really apart from the fact the Transition Town forum has been talking about them as a possible for transition town groups to run their on-line presence on.

I'm a sort of sudo techie.. in that I have worked in computer support and so on but mostly I know enough about a wide variety of things to understand what techies say and translate or to test any new system as I'm good at finding the bits that don't work and systemically poking at all the corners :) so if those with more knowledge want to look at such things I'll happily poke any trial set up.

Esther

== #1760 From: Trafford Freegle <sueandjean@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:25 am

I don't know how these things work, but someone on FC Next has got a world wide groups up and running for recycling, then Ecomodo seem to have a very good site but with a slow growth rate. Is there some way we could piggy back on this type of group? It makes sense to join one that is built with similar aims to me.

The downside is that I have joined a few groups and because they are non Yahoo I tend not to visit them. Will our members do the same? On Yahoo's new format I presume we will be listed on Yahoo and be able to spread the word easier, members will have quick links to their groups if they have an account, and more will probably have an account if it ends up catching on.

Jean
Trafford

== #1764 From: Paul Thompson <freeglepaul@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:18 am
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...>wrote:
> Is Drupal worth looking at?

Nope. Drupal is a content management system... Not at all what we need.

But a side point based on your suggestion, it is worth looking at Open Source Software available....

Cheers,
Paul Thompson
Ascot Freegle

== #1761 From: Chris Cant <chriscant@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:24 am
Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites. As an admin you can add and edit pages. It lets users register etc. There are oddles of (free) modules that do useful stuff, eg blog and forums come bundled with the basic installation. There are major extensions such as CiviCRM that is a Customer/Constituent Relationship Manager. I'm working on a couple of Drupal projects at the moment; the (paid-for) tool Artisteer is good at making themes, ie the appearance skin.

While Drupal is good, it may not have the modules or particular functionality that we would need to run a Freegle group.

I presume Big Tent and others are specifically set up to run a re-use group.

If we pitch our tent in someone else's field, then there's always the risk that they suddenly rearrange the furniture.

As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.

Even moving to someone's else existing will require a lot of time/energy.

If we don't find something suitable and we wished to start from scratch, then that will require even more energy. That said, Drupal may be a suitable starting point.

Chris
Penrith

== #1762 From: Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...> ==
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 11:37 am
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Chris Cant <chriscant@...> wrote:

> Drupal is an open-source general purpose Content Management System (CMS) that lets you build web sites.

Thanks I now now much more than i did about it. !

> As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.
That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any threads on this before or are we starting at the beginning?

Esther

== #1766 From: Paul Thompson <freeglepaul@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:13 pm
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Esther Reeves <esther.reeves@...>wrote:

> > As I understand it Paul was suggesting that we work out some criteria for what we want in any system.
> That would certainly be a good place to start.. have there been any
> threads on this before or are we starting at the beginning?

We've randomly chatted about the prospect of replacement systems (either pre-built or building from scratch). But we've not properly talked about real criteria for such a system.

To do this properly, we need to be quite thorough. I would suggest first defining some high level categories, then breaking into those and adding some detailed criteria. For instance....

High level categories:
1. Implementation - how does setting up groups and migrating groups work?
2. Capabilities - what do we need the system to do?
3. Dependability - could the system disappear one day? what sort of uptime can we expect?
4. Flexibility - is there any chance for adding on features we need, sort of like you can enhance Facebook by adding Facebook apps?

Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly.

I wonder if facebook would even remotely be a usable platform...
Hmmnn......... ;)

Cheers,
Paul Thompson
Ascot Freegle

== #1767 From: David Freegle Mod <davidfreegle@...> ==

Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:28 pm
On 01/09/2010 14:13, Paul Thompson wrote:
> Lots to consider here. And these are just the ones I came up with briefly.
As a non techie:
I think one of the main criteria will be to initially offer an "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we don't want to repeat the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle

Open source is also important although I do like the Ecomodo site which I believe was done with MS products and took them a couple of years.
Just out of interest I could ask them how long that took and what resources they used as I seem to remember a couple of them took a few years

I would also say that allowing photos of items would help a lot

And consider some form of member rating system even if it was just a I had a successful transaction with this member and /or some way of identifying how reliable a member is

I can see that in plugin in that the no of offers /wanteds a member posts so I suppose a recent posts of member may help
Very much random thoughts as I assume we are talking years ahead here and first priority will be to work with new yahoo system but would be handy to collate thoughts on this and maybe we could do a google survey when we have more time

Regards David
*David*
**Reading Freegle*

== #1768 From: Trafford Freegle <sueandjean@...> ==
Date: Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:44 pm
> As a non techie:
> I think one of the main criteria will be to initially offer an
> "alternative" to yahoo and make it optional as we don't want to repeat
> the mistakes TFN made with MY Freeceyle
>
> Regards David
> Yes I agree with most of this. There is no harm going down this route as it
> may be possible to ask Yahoo to implement some of what we want anyway, if it
> turns out to be viable on their new platform.
>

I was wondering if we could somehow run a simple separate system to run alongside Yahoo groups with maybe just a list of emails going to and from members for those who want to opt out of Yahoo?

Jean
Trafford

User:NeilGood

2010-07-20T22:59:23Z

NeilGood:

=Favourites=
[[Freegle_Tech]]

[[Tech Group Stuff]]

[[SampleWikiLink]] - BumpyWordStyle - not as good as Foswiki.

User:NeilGood

2010-07-20T22:58:26Z

NeilGood:

Favourites
[[Freegle_Tech]]
[[Tech Group Stuff]]
SampleWikiLink - BumpyWordStyle

User:NeilGood

2010-07-20T22:57:52Z

NeilGood: Created page with 'Favourites Freegle_Tech Tech_Group_Stuff'

Favourites
[[Freegle_Tech]]
Tech_Group_Stuff